Our Mother‘s Knew It -Part 4 ”Declaration of Divinity” - Divine Birthright

Declaration of Divinity - Part 4

We know that our Heavenly Father love our LGBTQ children.  Unfortunately this is not always the message they receive in our church communities. Jenie and Allison discuss how harmful it is that our LGBTQ children receive the message of shame about who they are.  Allison share's her brothers journey with this messaging and how that affected his live.  Jenie talks about how sometimes parents are part of this harmful message and what to do next if that has happened in your family. This is a powerful episode about how important our words are to our LGBTQ children.

Declaration of Divinity - Part 4 Divine Birthright - We take away an LGBTQ child’s divinity and replace it with shame when we tell them the way they were born is not part of God’s plan. As mothers we assert that any message taught to our children should reassure them that they are a beloved Child of God and so entitled to all the blessings promised to His faithful children.

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For additional support and help please reach out to us on our IG accounts at Lift+Love and Jenie Hunter Coaching

 

 

Transcripts:

Jenie Rae Hunter  0:03  
Hello are lifted left community we are back with you today Alison and I and we are so excited we always love recording these podcasts they we want you know they are from our heart. Anything we're talking to you about has been weighing heavy on our heart and we work on it for weeks and weeks and this one in particular that we're going to talk about today and we're gonna get into in just a minute but I think this has taken us six months out so

Allison Dayton  0:28  
it feels like it and Jenny got me up at the crack of dawn, before the animals. We ran out of time yesterday

Jenie Rae Hunter  0:37  
Right so Allison might have a little morning voice because it's very early. Yes, almost morning. We had exciting house here in the hunters like my daughter, Sarah Jane, open up her she's at BYU. So we did it all via Facebook Live but she openened her mission call amd is going to Rome Italy and now her twin is going share her twin already opened her college she's going to Las Vegas, Nevada. So my twins will be out in January and March to go on their mission. So super excited for them. And your you have your BYUI. So, it was busy this week, for sure. And then we have some really exciting things coming up your loved one we're not going to tell you about we're just going to we have a really big announcement that we is squeezing changes happening. Present. It is it is we are so excited about we there's so much going on behind the scenes without that we're not going to we're gonna just tease you but in December we have a big announcement and our live event. Our first Love

Allison Dayton  1:37  
Live event. It's the first time I think ever that we that mothers of LGBTQ children have gotten an opportunity to be together for two days.

Jenie Rae Hunter  1:50  
I can not wait.

Allison Dayton  1:54  
 It's going to be February 28 and march 1.

Jenie Rae Hunter  1:59  
Pretty full days both of those Yep, in what city in Provo?

Allison Dayton  2:04  
Lindon, it's next to Provo, in the shadow of the great Timpanogos  in this darling Event Center.

Jenie Rae Hunter  2:15  
And we are taking limited moms like we are making it this very cozy. So by the time you hear this podcast, it is live,

Allison Dayton  2:24  
Go to liftandlove.org and look at the live event button on the homepage and have a look at it. But it shows you what's paid for in the event proce and what you'll receive. I think the most important thing is you're going to be with a lot of other women who have been going through the same changes that you have, and you are going to find friendship and love and camaraderie and lifelong support. And we just we can't wait we we can't wait to do it.

Jenie Rae Hunter  3:05  
Yeah. If you know us, we are both kind of party girls. And so we have like it's going to be fun. And our whole purpose for this event coming together as women as moms is to leave with that so much better friendships and community in this because we know how isolating could be as LGBTQ moms, and we are creating things to end that isolation. So we're so excited. So we're going to focus on what we're here today. And we're talking about number four of the declaration of divinity. And this one's exciting. Go ahead,

Allison Dayton  3:42  
We are going to focus on birthright here. I'm just gonna read it really quick, I'm going to lead with it because these are the words that that began kind of our quest for sort of these statements. We take away our child's divinity and replace it with shame when we tell them the way they were born is not part of God's plan. as mothers, we assert that any message taught to our children should reassure them, that they are beloved children of God, and so entitled to all the blessings promised to his faithful children.

Jenie Rae Hunter  4:18  
I just, I mean, we know this. When you heard this, I'm sure you felt like we did like, wow, like it hurts that this is truth that we have given our LGBTQ filter and say, shame instead of divinity. We mean we talked to hundreds of moms. And this is the common denominator of what we have to kind of heal in our children of the shame and the trauma that they've received from the messages and potentially it's not I know that it's never been intentional anybody to take away anybody's divinity, but just kind of the platitudes and the things we've said part of our community. This has produced shame, if you're LGBTQ member,

Allison Dayton  4:57  
Right? And we've we journey and I've just been talking about These words. And it's interesting because I was looking through a journal from last year, and I try and keep I keep, I'm not great at writing journals, but I keep like statements and like inspiration and personal revelation in my journal and part of that first line, they're taking away the Divinity was in there. And Jenny and I have talked about this over the years, with my brother's death and the experiences, the sacred experiences around being in this house, and being part of that. One of the real understandings I had with it, he felt divorced from his heavenly parents when he left the church, because he was gay. And it was something he left when he was 24. And he died at 58. And it was something that he could never heal. And it was actually one of the first real understandings that I had, and I'm sort of ashamed I didn't understand it before. 

Unknown Speaker  6:14  
he felt Holy Spirit after Yeah.

Allison Dayton  6:17  
And he was so angry at the church, and that it was hard to look at it in like a healthy, objective way. And anyway, I just this has been in my head for a long time. And I think as Jenny and I have have raised these children, we can see it. This disconnection from their divinity and this disconnection from, from Jesus Christ and from God that we don't nobody intends it to happen. But, because because of some of the words around how we talk about LGBTQ people, it does happen.

Jenie Rae Hunter  7:04  
It does. And we know how, when you really look at who you are, and how you recreate it with the feeling of shame, like, I mean, how many times have we heard like, well, if I kill myself, then I won't feel this way anymore. And we know of the suicides and we know I mean, this is a serious problem. And, you know, I know, part of my son, I mean, he had some drug use, and it was from this feeling of shame. And it's really hard as parents, because then you have, like, have I add it to that shame. And, you know, like, you have to, it's really kind of devastating to go through it. Because you hold all of us, none of us should feel shameful for who we are, we're 100% worth, and that, you know, it's easier for us. But once when our children are affected, and our siblings, and that's a heartache. That's really it takes a while for you personally to heal for him too. And, you know, I think it's so interesting because Preston, you know, he didn't start that way. Like he served a mission, right? 

Allison Dayton  8:06  
oh and, and, you know, even and maybe one day we'll, I'll be brave enough to do, we'll do a podcast on suicide, but we were cleaning out his house, there were such symbols, or symbols from our gospel, even a painting he had done at the temple. In his home. They were not out like ours would be. Yeah. But you know, there was actually a photograph of the sacred grove in his home. And those symbols were so important to him, even even in his anger. And I think we, as mothers have just seen this and you know, I had a mom asked me this week, are actually a friend. Another LGBTQ mom said that she had a young man say to her, how do I do this? If God hates me? And the church hates me. And I mean that I know that was never anyone's intent. It's interesting how impactful Elder, Ballard's talk at BYU was when he said to those of you who are LGBTQ, I want you to know that there is a place for you in God's kingdom. Like that is if you're on the Instagram accounts for LGBTQ people that is so often repeated and I know that you'll be saying, well, we maybe we don't take away anyone's divinity. But I think that they we we might not do that, but that is the feeling. Right that our members and our families feel.

Jenie Rae Hunter  10:01  
Right? And, and we know this to be true because of how many we talked to right. And you know, even when a child is super obedient and you know, goes on a mission because they think this the mission will then solve this what they feel like is shameful about them. And then they come back and, you know, we just stories over and over again about and they, you know they can't even listen to the apostle speak anymore because that triggers that feeling of unworthiness. And so

Allison Dayton  10:33  
I think I think we're we're getting away from it. But that idea that our families are won't be whole in eternity. So we have this member of the family that won't have an opportunity to be whole, and with us, in celestial glory puts the whole family in question. Right?

Jenie Rae Hunter  10:52  
Right. And that was just bad interpretation. That's not you know, how Heavenly Father wants us to feel, EVER!

Allison Dayton  10:58  
And my parents never really bought into that idea that they wouldn't be a whole family, you know, but that didn't take away my brother's pain.Yeah. So it's, it's not just a parent, assuring their child, that their beloved child of God, it's all of us, assuring each other, that we are beloved children of our Heavenly Parents. I mean, that takes all of us to cure this all every Sunday school teacher, every seminary teacher, every neighbor, just like Wow, you are a child of God. And there are new our favorite and there's nothing that can take you away from that birthright. 

Jenie Rae Hunter  11:52  
Yeah, you are not. You were made not despite his plan, you're part of his plan. Right? You know, to really feel that deep inside. And, you know, I love like, we are all the plan of salvation. You know, we hear a lot of like, Well, where's my child, he's not in the plan of salvation anymore. And I love where in the typical guy that says, the plan of salvation and the premortal existence, Heavenly Father procured a plan to enable us to become like Him and receive a fullness of joy. Because of this plan, we can be perfected through the atonement, receive a fullness of joy, and live forever in the presence of God, our family relationships can last throughout the eternities. And I really subject that we really know, we know less about the plan of salvation than we really like, there's so much more we don't know.  Yeah, I think we have a very scarcity, very focused in view of the planet salvation, that heavenly Father has a much bigger view. And that there is like President Ballard said that there's room for all members in that God's kingdom. And so when we say messages that get when we we just have to be careful how we are teaching, the doctrine interpreting the doctrine, and that we're not othering people because that is what's happened. And I want to teach the doctrine, I love the doctrine of Jesus Christ and love our gospel. And we have to be more careful with how we interpret it and how our words are being said.

Allison Dayton  13:18  
One of the thingsas you were talking about the Plan of Salvation, so I loved Tammy Uzelac, call on the Sunday on Monday podcast Instagram account said one day, she had, it's a devil in Greek, it means one who separates. And this is, this is the what's happening here, we're separating somebody out of eligibility or the circle I always say we have to redraw or reframe the family so that everybody's back in the family and we we know that the Lord sent us each here with equal potential to get back to him and that was the plan that was the plan that started in in Eden, right? We had we had to be cast out of an Eden to or Adam and Eve did to be able to, educate ourselves as we fight thorns and thistles and noxious weeds, and that's an education that we are working on. All the while to get back to our, you know, to come at the end of the day to the fount to the altar, and pray to the Lord and say, what, what do we need to know and we're blind in this but it was for all children. And I often say to people, there's there's no Heaven without my brother, and my son.

I love that.

I mean, that's, that's our belief, right? That we are sealed together as families and bound together as family. So I just I revel in the comfort of that, and we don't understand we have no answers. But as mothers, we know, the beauty and the divinity of these children, and the more mothers we talk to the more stories of the Lord helping them in the wilderness to understand these children and to strengthen them,

Jenie Rae Hunter  15:49  
I think we're talking about this today because, you know, I love that the church has given us so much authority of parents where, you know, once again, we're home center church supported, centers, groups, focus, supportive, yes, church supported, where, you know, you really have this personal authority as parents, to guide your the message that your children hear about the gospel of Jesus Christ. And I love that we have the rule that at any time, you're you could go with any interview with a bishop or state president and sit there with your child and make sure the messages are in with align with what you're telling at church and at you know, I mean, start telling at home, because, you know, there's I love bishops and state presidents, they've worked so hard, right? That like the bishops, to me is the hardest job in the whole church, very little, like training, right? They're thrown into the hardest situations of people's lives, and they have to put their life I just love bishops and bishops wives, I commend you, you're amazing people and you give, give give. And even though I know sometimes, bishops misspeak, right, they just, they're just men, and they're doing the best they can. They're learning. And I know this is because of so many moms I talked to and the bishops, there's no ill intent, I know that. But there is sometimes things that are said that have done damage. I know that has happened in our home with our son. And so I think, like, parents, moms, and dads really be prayerful about, you know, the interviews your children are having at church,you know, because there is very different interpretations of like the doctrine and how we're viewing our LGBTQ saints, you know, that you felt that. And so use your personal authority and use the tools that our church has given you to protect your child and to be able to steer your children in the message of their divinity, and that they are whole and not broken?

Allison Dayton  17:48  
Well, yeah, as you were saying that I thought it might be a good idea just to have a conversation with the bishop beforehand, before any meetings where you could mention to them, I understand I don't want to limit what you're saying. But I would, I pray that you will pray about focusing on the love of Christ, that light and love of Christ on my child, the entire message. And I just think it's okay, to advocate for valuable messages, those messages will ring in their ears for the rest of their lives.

Jenie Rae Hunter  18:29  
Well, they will and because they didn't do that just as much, right? Yeah,

Allison Dayton  18:33  
they will be impossible because the bishop is speaking for for God, right?

Jenie Rae Hunter  18:41  
Yeah, he has those keys. So

Allison Dayton  18:44  
in all humility, you can ask a bishop to be very prayerful. Yeah, about focusing the love of Christ on the child. And you could remind the Bishop that, that your child knows about the doctrine the way it you know, and that wouldn't necessarily need a new lesson on the doctrine because they're very well aware of it. And you talk about it quite a bit in your family and in primary and young woman's and all of it. But that is, that is, that's just you there, then you're giving the bishop a breath, and a moment to really, you he knows what he needs to focus on for this child. And you're not telling him what to say you're just asking him to, to reframe it in in beautiful ways that will that will also exist in this child's head for the rest of their lives, and that can make all the difference.

Jenie Rae Hunter  19:42  
Yeah, I don't think you could go wrong and focusing on the love of Christ. And when you said that, I was thinking, I wish I had always done that with my son. Oh my gosh. If I could have done that, like because they're having, 

Allison Dayton  20:00  
All of our children, yes, I'm not sure all of my children got a real huge dose every single time I talked to him,

Jenie Rae Hunter  20:09  
but I that's what we're striving for. And there have been moments where, unintentionally, I know that I have said, things that Nick took, and brought him shame. And that was painful to realize. But I tell you, and I really want to be vulnerable here with you. When I let go of like, like my shame about it, that I did that costume shame, and had the conversation with him. That was really a powerful moment in our relationship. And we I, all of us, not all of us, but some of his mom say things like no empty chairs and things like that, that we've heard before our child even comes out, we have no idea like we do this from the best intentions. And it we are sometimes part of that message. And don't wait to sit down and talk and apologize. And tell them how your heart where your heart is, and what you've learned and how your heart has changed and how you have new understanding. Because that was really a powerful and beautiful moment for Nick and our andJohn and I. So you know, it's, you know better, you do better. And sometimes you just say things and you don't even know what your child is dealing with. And I know that was part of ours, and then that he came out and, and we even can remember some things. I think then they were brought back to us from him. And we're like, wow, that must have been hurtful. Right? And so sometimes we're part of that message of shame. And I know Allison, you probably weren't because you were so drained by Preston. And it's just a normal life.

Allison Dayton  21:55  
I was, you know, I did my fair share of I had my fair share of fear, actually, because of my brother's life. Yeah, I didn't I didn't want the same life for for a child and I did my own damage. We all do. And I didn't even need to, Jake was feeling the pain already. You know what I mean? He was doing it himself, too.

Jenie Rae Hunter  22:16  
I think that is such a interesting thing, what you just said, because that is like, it almost feels like and I see this when my LGBTQ clients where it's not the parents, I'm doing the actual LGBT person where they are constantly looking for, do I belong? Am I like they're looking on high alert for evidence? Are they divine? Or are they broken? And so like, You're not even so it's almost like you have to double down with them about there's nothing wrong with you, you are created in God's image, you are divine. You know, you really these messages. I know like you we hear them a lot. But these children need to hear them double, even more double than your other children. Because they really are high alert of like, Is this true? Is the things I've heard, because they're not just other than our church, they're other than our world, let's be honest. And so it's it's, it's a it's a huge message that they are internalizing. And so to really combat that, talk about it say How are you feeling about yourself? Have you prayed, I love when we're interviewing an LGBTQ member on our on our podcast and how they say what changed the game for me is when I finally prayed god of how he felt about me, yep, right. And so encourage your children to gain their because his witness God's witness to them is going to be more powerful than my witness. The bishops witness, anybody's witness, like God's witness is what is going to go to their core. And so I would suggest you be praying about that, to find out how God loves your child for all your children, but we're talking about our LGBTQ today, and and really encourage your child to pray about that. And to connect, sometimes they can't pray, say, go for a walk, ask questions, like whatever you want to go in the woods. Yes. But like, and I love all the time I say to send them I know like how much Heavenly Father loves you because I do like I've gotten it this vision of how much Heavenly Father loves and values and how much the Savior loves and values him and so I that's the message he hears a lot from me like, well, he loves you or he's worried about you or like yeah, I feel that connection with God about how much he loves his child. And that helps me parent the way I think God wants me to do for Nick. Absolutely.

Allison Dayton  24:35  
Okay, let me read it and then we'll leave you with that. We take away an LGBTQ child's divinity and replace it with shame when we tell them the way they were born is not part of God's plan. as mothers we assert that any message taught to our children should reassure them they are beloved children of God, and so entitled to all the blessings promised to his faithful children.

Jenie Rae Hunter  24:59  
That's declaration Number four, on birth right? And so just ponder these words, pray about these words and find out how as mothers and parents, you could be empowered to make a message more aligned with God's doctrine about your child. WIll you read it one more time. 

Allison Dayton  25:16  
Yeah, go ahead and share your thoughts on Instagram On Facebook, where others can see them and we can talk about this and just, we'd love to know what you think we're excited to hear about what you think.

Jenie Rae Hunter  25:31  
All right, we love you and sign up for Live, and you can come with us because that's, it's like I said, they're gonna go fast. So we want you to be with us and have you with us. Yes, right. All right, Bye!