Lift + Love

"Building The Hearth - Creating Belonging" with Jeff and Katherine Wise - Episode 72 of the Lift+Love podcast

 

Episode hosts Allison Dayton and Darice Auston interview Katherine and Jeff Wise about their son Talmage coming out as gay in February 2013 while Jeff was serving as an LDS bishop. They describe early mistakes, including Jeff delaying telling Katherine due to multiple family crises, and Katherine’s immediate spiritual experience confirming God’s love for Talmage. The Wises chose to tell family, friends, and their ward openly rather than keep it secret, and received supportive responses. After Jeff attended a Los Altos fireside featuring Bob Rees and Mitch Mayne, they hosted their own fireside in March 2015, which led to creating a monthly gathering called The Hearth. They discuss how the November 2015 exclusion policy drove many young gay people away despite supportive local leadership, and why they continue participating in church to advocate for marginalized people.

 

00:00 Meet the Wises

01:02 Son Comes Out

02:33 Bishop and Ward Impact

03:34 Mom Learns Later

04:48 Stress and Secrecy

07:24 Late Night Questions

09:28 Context and Denial

14:05 Spiritual Confirmation

18:29 Blessing and Expansion

20:17 Don’t Hide Who You Are

21:41 Coming Out Publicly

23:21 Telling the Ward

26:09 Ward Comes Together

28:54 Telling the Kids

30:46 Lovingest Support

33:18 From Secret to Fireside

36:41 Launching The Hearth

40:33 Policy Shockwaves 2015

45:14 Trans Policy Echoes

46:36 Why We Stay

49:43 Worth the Work

 

Find the audio version of this episode here and the video version of this episode on our Lift+Love YouTube channel here

Find resources, support meetings, events, and community — including 13 different types of free online support meetings for LGBTQ+ individuals and those who love them — on the Lift+Love website here

 

 

Joy in Dissonance: Parenting Adult Children (with Lisa Valentine Clark) — Episode 71

In this episode, episode hots Allison Dayton and Jenie Hunter welcome back Lisa Valentine Clark- comedian, actress, host of The Lisa Show, and one of the original "OG" Lift+Love moms. 

Lisa shares how she stays anchored amid dissonance: a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, love for her family, and a commitment to truth — even when truth means sitting with uncertainty. She talks about what it looks like to practice her religion largely on her own after losing her husband, finding unexpected joy in the temple and in serving as a Primary chorister.

On parenting her 5 adult children, Lisa reflects with openness and grace: she wishes she had held less tightly to a prescribed "covenant path," and describes what showing up for her adult children actually looks like — reciprocal respect, genuine relationship without agenda, prayer, naming their spiritual gifts, and loving boldly even when it feels awkward or invites judgment from others.

This episode is for every parent who wants to love their LGBTQ child well and still hold onto their personal faith — and may relate to Lisa’s experience with letting go of the script.

In this episode:

• Why Lisa roots herself in fundamentals when faith feels complicated
• Learning to make "uncomfortable" part of discipleship
• Joy vs. happiness — and why the distinction matters
• Solo worship after loss, and where she finds reassurance
• What she wishes she'd done differently as a younger parent
• How to see and name the spiritual gifts in your LGBTQ children
• Loving boldly in the face of ward judgment
• What "support" actually looks like in practice

About Lisa Valentine Clark: Lisa Valentine Clark is a comedian, actor, and host of The Lisa Show, a nationally-syndicated, award-winning family and lifestyle podcast (a BYU Radio production) available on all streaming platforms. She has been a host for BYU-TV's Random Acts, co-creator of the award-winning web series Pretty Darn Funny, and appeared in the films Once I Was a Beehive (2015) and Once I Was Engaged (2021). Lisa is the mother of five children, three of whom are LGBTQ. She spoke at the inaugural Gather Conference in 2023 and served as a mainstage host at Gather Conference 2024.

Learn more about Lisa and The Lisa Show at  https://www.byuradio.org/the-lisa-show

Find the audio version of this episode here and the video version of this episode on our Lift+Love YouTube channel here

Find resources, support meetings, events, and community — including 13 different types of free online support meetings for LGBTQ+ individuals and those who love them — on the Lift+Love website here

 

"Why People Are Leaving the Church—and What We Can Learn" (with Jeff Strong) Episode 70

Allison Dayton and Darice Auston interview Jeff Strong (former senior executive at P&G and Johnson & Johnson and former leader of a service-oriented LDS mission with his wife Sarah) about his book "Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn From Them", based on surveys of over 15,000 Church members. Strong emphasizes that stepping away is deeply personal and often involves long, sincere wrestling, then outlines four primary reasons: lifestyle (6%), church history/truth claims (42%), social positions and moral conflict (33%), and church experience (18%). He argues a “fifth wave”—church culture—can relieve or worsen these tensions, using a “soil” metaphor balancing protection/stability with nourishment, and notes unhealthy correction/containment increases the likelihood of leaving. He shares stories highlighting LGBTQ+ pain and belonging, estimates about 40% of formerly active members have stepped away over 25 years, and describes the need to openly discuss these conflicts.

 

Learn more about Jeff Strong: https://www.tornbyjeffstrong.com/about

Find his book "Torn - Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn From Them" here

Find the video version of this episode of the Lift+Love podcast here 

Find resources, support meetings, events, and community (including free 13 different types of online support meetings for LGBTQ+ and those who love them) on the Lift+Love website here

 

 

Parenting Trans Kids - We have a Lot of Work to Do (with Ingrid Smith) Lift+Love Podcast Episode #69

Episode Hosts Allison Dayton and Darice Auston interview Toronto-based Ingrid Smith, parent of a 28-year-old trans daughter (and a coach for parents of trans and non-binary kids), whose no-nonsense, compassionate approach has built a devoted following on Instagram @thewayforward4parents

In this episode:

• Why parents need their own space to process their emotions — separate from their kids
• What to do (and avoid) when your child first comes out
• How to navigate family photos, old memories, and your own grief
• The inner resistance many parents feel and why it doesn't make you a bad parent
• Gender affirming care: what the data actually says
• The unique complications for parents in faith communities
• How to differentiate between God and institution (when they feel like the same thing)

00:00 Meet Ingrid Smith

02:14 Ingrid’s Story and Mission

04:56 Why Parents Need Support

08:04 What Not to Say

09:27 Repair and Rebuild Trust

11:36 Photos Memories and Pronouns

14:37 Finding a Win Win

18:56 Coaching Scope and Boundaries

20:51 Common Parent Concerns

21:26 Parental Resistance

21:47 Silence and Denial

22:50 HRT Fears and Confusion

23:39 Choice Versus Identity

26:20 Risk Data and Detransition

27:47 Faith and Gender History

30:16 Church Community Backlash

33:14 Repairing Faith Wounds

37:05 Differentiating God and Institution

 

Connect with Ingrid:

• Follow Ingrid on Instagram @thewayforward4parents
• The Way Forward Coaching Website
• Get Ingrid's newsletter for parents of LGBTQ+ kids
• Access free resources for parents of LGBTQ+ kids
• Blog | The Way Forward
• Watch Ingrid on Real Talk with Dr. Lulu

Find the video version of this episode of the Lift+Love podcast here 

Find the transcript of this episode of the Lift+Love podcast here  

Find resources, support meetings, events, and community (including free online support meetings for parents of trans/nonbinary kids) on the Lift+Love website here

 

Episode 68- Navigating LGBTQ Family and Faith (with Liz Simmons) 

In this Mom Series episode of the Lift+Love podcast, episode hosts Allison Dayton and Jenie Hunter interview Liz Simmons, a lifelong church member in California and mother of three adult children, whose son came out as bisexual nearly four years ago and is now married to a man. Liz describes choosing not to lose her son or her faith, learning to claim personal spiritual authority, and navigating grief and triggers at church—especially language that makes her feel her family is “aced out.” She shares both the love and support she has experienced in her ward and painful moments when others say she is “getting ahead of the prophet” for hoping for change, including an incident involving her father, a temple sealer. Liz emphasizes assuming good intent, seeking support, reading The Sin of Certainty, and trusting God, while her husband’s steady faith has anchored her through ongoing “good sadness.”

00:00 Meet Liz Simmons

00:44 Her Son Comes Out

01:23 Faith And Dissonance

03:44 Church Triggers

04:19 Ahead Of Prophet

07:42 Making Space For Hope

10:16 Good Intent And Empathy

11:27 Grief In The Pew

13:04 Good Sadness

14:24 A Leader's Counsel

16:21 Superstar Grandparents

19:59 Letting Go Of Control

21:04 Rebuilding Trust

23:43 Finding Peace Together

25:03 Spiritual Authority Grows

26:27 Compassion For Pushback

27:55 Normalize Nonlinear Healing

28:03 Inclusion Versus Doctrine

29:06 Advice To New Parents

29:45 Books And Safe Support

31:01 Marriage Coping Styles

32:27 Grace With Son In Law

33:35 Enjoy What Is

34:51 A Community With No Handbook

 

Find the video version of this episode here 

Find the transcript of this episode here  

Find resources, support meetings, events, and community on the Lift+Love website here

 

A Conversation with David Archuleta - Lift+Love Podcast Episode 67

Content Note: This episode includes discussion of suicidal ideation and mental health struggles. If you or someone you love is in crisis, please don't wait - reach out to the 9-8-8 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline by calling (or texting) 9-8-8 

What does it cost to be the “good Mormon boy” when the Church’s vision of you doesn’t have room for who you actually are? In this episode, Lift+Love team members Allison Dayton (Founder) and Darice Auston sit down with recording artist and American Idol alumnus David Archuleta — whose journey from being a self-described “poster boy” for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to coming out as gay and eventually leaving his faith - has resonated deeply with LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families around the world.

 

David shares what it was like as a youth and young adult to lean on the Church’s teachings to minimize feelings he was consistently told were wrong — and what it finally took to stop. He speaks candidly about faith, identity, the cost of silence, and the unexpected freedom that came from telling the whole story — including in his recent memoir, Devout: Losing My Faith to Find Myself. This is a conversation about what it means to be loved fully, to grieve a community, and to find yourself on the other side.

 

In this episode:

• David’s experience navigating faith and sexuality as a public figure in the LDS community

• His belief that there is a way to be more inclusive of LGBTQ people while still honoring deeply held religious beliefs

• What he wants families, leaders, and allies to understand about the LGBTQ members still sitting in their pews

 

Find the video version of this episode on our Youtube channel here

Find resources, support meetings, events, and community for LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints and their parents, relatives, friends, allies, and leaders on the Lift+Love website: www.liftandlove.org

 

More about David Archuleta: 

EP Features Music Inspired by His New York Times Bestselling Memoir DEVOUT - Losing My Faith To Find Myself – here 

Listen to Sample of “Old & Young” HERE

LOS ANGELES, CA – MARCH 18, 2026 - DEVOUT, is an instant New York Times Bestseller while also dominating the top spot on Amazon’s Pop Artist Biographies and Popular Music Books charts.

Good Morning America - Here

Rolling Stone - Here

People magazine - Here

Entertainment Tonight - Here

Queerty - Here

Spin Magazine - Here

Sherri Shepherd Show - Here

USA Today: Here

"At just seventeen, David Archuleta rose to national fame as the runner-up on American Idol season seven, captivating millions with his angelic voice. Behind the scenes, however, he was struggling with a truth he feared would destroy everything: he was attracted to men—and a devout member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 

In DEVOUT, David takes you inside his deeply personal journey as a closeted Mormon teen turned international pop star, torn between faith, fame, and identity. From dealing with the pressures of being on a hit television show to a domineering father who controlled every aspect of his career—even being banned from the show’s set—David reveals the emotional abuse and inner turmoil that he says plagued his childhood. 

This searing memoir reflects on David’s ventures with American Idol, a tour with Demi Lovato, and a two-year sabbatical as a missionary in South America, charting his path through heartbreak, estrangement, three engagements, thoughts of suicide, and finally, his courageous decision to leave the Mormon Church in order to live authentically as a queer man. Featuring never-before-seen photos, DEVOUT is a must-read for fans of pop culture, American Idol, and anyone deconstructing their religious upbringing, or who’s ever wrestled with who they are versus who they’re told to be."

“A lot of people who saw teenage David on TV thought they knew me. In DEVOUT, I share that there was a lot more going on behind the scenes than many realized—with me, with my family, and with the show. I had to recondition almost everything I learned or was taught to believe, and that process can be challenging. This is a story about finding courage within yourself during your absolute darkest moment to persevere and become who you truly are.”

In addition, David will also release a 3-song EP here of new music written specifically about themes in the book.  With DEVOUT, David delivers one of his most intimate and vocally powerful projects to date. The DEVOUT EP serves as a musical companion to his memoir, capturing the emotional in-between of deconstruction, healing, and self-acceptance. Stripped back and raw, the songs place David’s voice front and center as he takes us on the journey of accepting “you don't have to be perfect and that you are human.” 

The focus track, “Old and Young,” captures the “state of limbo you feel you're in after going through a big life change.” Through rich, dynamic vocals, David explores the challenge of starting over- feeling older yet newly inexperienced. 

DEVOUT is a deeply personal chapter in David’s artistry, and ultimately showcases a voice that can bring both honesty and hope.

David shares more on the Devout EP - "Since this book is looking back at the prequel of my life as it is for me today, I wanted to go back to the feel of how I approached music as a young musician trying to figure out himself, and how younger David approached his life or felt like he had to approach his life with music. The songs are a bit more raw, more vocally focused, and really about telling the story to complement the story I tell in my memoir.    The focus track from the EP is “Old and Young” HERE – “Old and Young” is a song about the state of limbo you feel you're in after going through a big life change. We don't see things the same way as we once did. You've gotten so much older but yet are starting a completely new chapter of life so you feel like a baby in terms of experience and knowing what to do. In the process you realize you don't have to be perfect and that you are human.” 

On Season 7 of American Idol, David Archuleta made over 30 million television viewers swoon with his angelic voice, ultimately winning runner-up on the show at the age of seventeen. His journey has included turning out multiple platinum-selling hits, achieving global acclaim as a live performer, becoming a New York Times Bestselling author and emerging as an undeniable fixture on the pop-culture scene. Since his first single “Crush,” he has released eight studio albums, twenty-four singles, and twenty-one music videos. Hit singles “Crème Brulée” and “Hell Together” have marked a striking evolution and new chapter for David as an artist and creative entrepreneur while continuing to expand his audience globally. Having grown up as a poster child for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, David struggled to be his true self and didn’t come out as queer until 2021. He now advocates for members of the LGBTQ+ community. He lives in Los Angeles, California.

#gallerybooks

#simonandschuster

#devoutdavidarchuleta

Follow David Here:

TikTok 1.3M Followers + 22M Likes

Instagram 812K Followers 

Facebook 3.4M Followers

YouTube 902k Subscribers 

Spotify 2.7M monthly listeners

Twitter 1.1M Followers 

Lift+Love podcast episode 66 - "Gender Diversity" with Dr. Lisa M. Diamond (part 2 - Best Practices for Parents of Gender Diverse Kids)

 

In this episode of the Lift+Love podcast, episode hosts Allison Dayton and Darice Auston are back with Dr. Lisa M. Diamond, professor of developmental psychology, health psychology and gender studies at the University of Utah. Her research focuses on sexual orientation development and sexual identity.

 

In part two of a discussion with Dr. Lisa Diamond, the hosts talk about the fear and confusion many parents experience when a child discloses gender diversity and emphasize that loving and protecting a child is a parental instinct, not an ideology. Dr. Diamond encourages parents to thank children for trusting them and to focus on connection and safety, noting research that 50–70% of gender-diverse children report lack of family affirmation. She shares the “LEAD” framework: Let your affection show, Express your pain/confusion away from your child, Avoid rejecting behaviors (including subtle cues), and Do good you can.

 

00:00 Podcast Mission

00:48 Gender Diversity History

01:39 Parents In The Deep End

02:44 Love And Protect First

04:19 Love Without Ideology

06:49 Thank Them For Trust

07:57 Why Affirmation Matters

09:16 LEAD Let Affection Show

12:51 LEAD Express Pain Elsewhere

15:54 Lifelong Adjustment

18:05 LEAD Avoid Rejection

20:48 Grace And Do Good

 

link to the map of gender-diverse cultures mentioned in this episode:

https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/

 

Find the video version and transcript of this podcast on the Lift+Love website www.liftandlove.org/podcast

Lift+Love podcast episode 65 - "Gender Diversity" with Dr. Lisa M. Diamond (part 1)

 

In this episode of the Lift+Love podcast, episode hosts Allison Dayton and Darice Auston welcome Dr. Lisa M. Diamond, professor of developmental psychology, health psychology and gender studies at the University of Utah. Her research focuses on sexual orientation development and sexual identity.

 

Diamond explains that the “right” term is what a family member prefers and describes why LGBTQ+ letters have expanded as cultural awareness and research have recognized more diversity. The conversation highlights how distress comes from societal expectations, how culture shapes brains through early learning and ongoing neuroplasticity, and why parents can add new understanding over time (including with pronouns). Diamond distinguishes assigned sex/gender at birth from complex biological sex, outlining multiple layers of sexual differentiation, and explains increases in Gen Z identification as a knowledge and category-expansion effect, accelerated by internet access, not “social contagion,” encouraging parents to learn with and from their kids.

 

Part 2 of this conversation (episode 66) is available now!

 

Find the video version and transcript of this podcast on the Lift+Love website www.liftandlove.org/podcast

 

Episode 64 - Can I Support LGBTQ Loved Ones & Still Hold A Temple Recommend?

In this episode, Allison Dayton* and Jenie Hunter** tackle one of the most common questions they hear from parents with gay children (and from other relatives and friends who want to be supportive): Can I support my child, gay marriage, or LGBTQ people and still qualify for a temple recommend in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

They introduce the topic by naming the tension many feel between showing love and support for LGBTQ loved ones and concerns that they have based on the questions that may come up in a temple recommend interview, setting the stage for a deeper conversation about what support can look like in that context.

 

00:00 Intro

00:03 Temple Recommend Interviews

00:05 Supporting LGBTQ Loved Ones

00:14 Can I Support Gay Marriage?

 

*Allison Dayton is the founder of the Lift+Love organization, original Lift+Love podcast co-host, and the parent of an LGBTQ+ child.

**Jenie Hunter is an original Lift+Love podcast co-host, LCS certified life coach, and parent of an LGBTQ+ child.

Lift+Love website www.liftandlove.org

Connect With Us: Call the Lift+Love voicemail line (801) 382-8420 to share ideas for topics you’d like us to discuss in future episodes.

Tags: #LGBTQ #LDS #Mormon #ParentingLGBTQ #Faith #Family #TransYouth #ChurchOfJesusChrist #QueerFaith #LiftAndLove

Lift+Love Podcast episode 63 "Josh and Sarah Sabey - Retelling Scripture Stories for Families with Beauty, Honesty, and Heart"

 

"Real stories about a real God who loves real people"

Episode hosts Allison Dayton and Darice Auston interview authors and filmmakers Josh and Sarah Sabey about their For Little Saints scripture storybooks and accompanying podcast, created to help families connect more deeply with God and scripture by telling Bible and Book of Mormon stories as meaningful narratives for both children and adults. They share their background -meeting at BYU, their original idea to humanize characters like Laman and Lemuel, and their process of writing a story a week, starting as blog posts that later became books despite early publisher rejections. They discuss handling difficult topics by focusing on what serves the story rather than sensational details (e.g., omitting “basket of arms”) and addressing issues like polygamy clearly but thoughtfully. They describe collaborative drafting and editing, debates over tone (e.g., Noah), staying close to the text while exploring overlooked possibilities (e.g., Lot’s wife), and their goal to preserve scripture’s beauty, grace, and “shared story” power. They are working on a New Testament storybook and note their children as a test audience.

 

00:00 Meet Josh and Sarah

01:41 How They Met

02:09 Storybook Origin

04:00 From Blog to Book

05:19 Stories for Families

06:06 Handling Hard Topics

08:40 Reframing Lot’s Wife

13:42 Talking Polygamy Honestly

16:47 Writing Process Together

18:01 When They Disagree

19:05 Editing for Kids

19:47 Is This Midrash

22:33 Stories Not Puzzles

24:45 Scripture as Revelation

27:01 Claiming Personal Authority

30:34 Saving the Old Testament

33:21 Whats Next Projects

34:55 Why Stories Stick

37:04 Kids as Test Audience

 

Find the books at http://forlittlesaints.com

Find the For Little Saints podcast at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/scripture-stories-for-little-saints/id1833375451

Find them on social media @forlittlesaints

 

Video version of this episode available here: https://youtu.be/Ax1vnENgeAg?si=MLvRM1_WOmTWm_D6

 

Transcript of this episode available here: www.liftandlove.org/podcast